Sunday, June 28, 2009

1 Timothy 2


Berry Girl said...

well, I'm just dying to know what anyone thinks about the last verse here:
"But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint"
My MacAurthur bible has some good notes on this, but I'd love to hear some opinions...

in fact, I'd love to hear anyone's opinion on MOST of this chapter (lol) Paul has a pretty decisive stand on men & women in the church. How does this affect us today? Can women lead mixed sunday school classes? Chair committees in the church?
I don't know what to think about this. Part of me balks at it, and yet another part of me knows I would be uncomforatable being in a mixed adult SS class that had a female teacher...
any thoughts out there??

Prairie Chick said...

hey, there, I'm back! Well, I have studied this verse extensively before and the conclusion that I came to after that study was quite solid for the first part of the verse, a little shaky for the second. The subject "she" from the first part of the verse literally; της definite article - genitive singular feminine ie. SHE has to be traced back to the antecedent which is Eve in verse 13 and "the woman" again Eve, in verse 14.

The word "child-bearing" comes from τεκνογονιας noun - genitive singular feminine
teknogonia tek-nog-on-ee'-ah: literally, childbirth.

This chapter is referring to creation order, the fall, the roles of male and female. For me the understanding of this verse is mostly rooted in Genesis 3 where we see Adam and Eve messing up their roles, He taking her lead, she not submitting to leadership and neither of them living a life of faith, love, sanctity and self restraint.

I believe that salvation is by faith alone, but faith in a person, and faith in a person who had to be "borne". They messed up their roles, but through the bearing of children, Eve, the mother of all living, would become the ancestor of a savior, and in a way would play a part in securing her own salvation. If Jesus never was "born", he couldn't have died. Without his death no salvation would be available to us.

The second part "if they continue" as far as I can see must be referring to the antecedents Adam and Eve. They both messed up, but through the birth of a (future) child (who is alluded to crushing the serpents head a few verses earlier as the descendant of Eve who would crush Satan's head), if they continue in faith, etc, etc.

Ie. It is faith in a "child born" that would save them.

I also see much richness in this passage about the strengths and roles that God desires from men and women. Men are made to lead, but balk from leadership. Women are made to nurture but fight to take the lead. Our sin nature is constantly raging to make us either apathetic to what He has designed and desired for us, or rebellious and desirous of what we view as a "greater" position.

I believe that God has given men and women equality, in all shapes and forms of gifts, but He ordains us to use them in different ways. I believe women have the gift of teaching, just as men do, and that our teaching is just as important as men's teaching, but that it is to occupy a different place. We are not to carry that yoke of authority and responsibility before God as only the man can. When we teach, it is to be under that yoke and authority and THEY will be the ones accountable to God.

I do not believe in women having authority over men because then men would not be men. They would be pansies. I'm listening to a fantastic sermon on this right now by Mark Driscoll in His proverbs series. Awesome stuff in there on gender roles and a whole lot of other stuff.

Prairie Chick said...

oh my goodness. clear as mud huh?

Did that make any sense at all? Basically, SHE will be saved through the birth of a child(Jesus) if they (extending salvation to all mankind) continue in faith, hope and love." Thus salvation requires two things, the coming of a savior and continuing in faith. Phew.